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<  Game Play  ~  Monks are the wannabe assassins

Mazil
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:44 pm Reply with quote
Member Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 305 Location: In my fishtank
I was considering this today and after some involved thought processes I came to the conclusion that the only reason people would play a monk is to have the same general combat abilities of an assassin, just in a slightly more difficult setup.


General stats (assume neutral con, neutral str, no alliance):

Assassin:


5 second cast time

Level 25: 163Hp. 50Mp

Damage will be around 20 with access to best weapons (correct if wrong)

Backstabs will be around 90-110? (this is not-so-testable, but the current documented record is a backstab of 72 from dragonslayer and that was at lvl 15 for him. Another 10 levels would see a fair increase in this) lets be generous and say it's at 100 with the best weapons.


Monk:

5 second cast time

Level 25: 161Hp, 51Mp

Damage will be 28 at max. But you can't hit enchant only monsters.

Meditate will easily provide a 30-40Hp heal

Touches depend on the monster of-course. But if we talk high end perms, we are easily looking at 120-140 damage if successful.


Stat Differences


The Monk at lvl 25 has about 1.96% more Mp than the assassin. The assassin has about 1.22% more Hp than the monk. Obviously this is not alot in either case, so it is clear that the two characters are almost on par in these basic stats.

Although I said the two characters would use neutral strength and neutral con, (and no alliance). Real characters would obviously have different stat mixes. (This is a bit of a sweeping statement) Most assassins will be pumping strength, dex and a little bit of intelligence. Monks on the other hand could do that, but will generally benefit from any stat mix. This however does alter the playstyle a bit. Some monks will be cast/heal oriented while others may be playing tank/smash/meditate or any mix at all! In general though, I think monks have a really hard time getting their stats right, and will have to rely on the level-up growths a whole lot more to get a good spread. Assassins on the other hand really don't need to deviate from the cookie cutter for success.

So Monk's need more carefully places stats, that's only a small thing for an experienced player but can cause a world of pain for a new player who doesn't know better.

As a monk levels higher, he is obviously going to win out with his barehands vs an assassin. But as soon as the two are posed with an enchanted monster, the monk is left in the dust, forced to use a weapon which works at harsh penalties for them.

The Assassin does not have as much burst damage against a high level monster as a monk does. The monk that successfully touches that 280Hp perm will leave the assassins 100 damage back stab in relative shame. But face it, touch is only good when saved for the higher level monsters so that its usefulness can be maximized when it succeeds. Successful touches are nice when they land, but waiting 10 minutes can be truly painful, while the assassin will be running around landing his 100 damage backstabs every few monsters. The assassin doesn't care what he uses the ability on, because the backstab is constant damage.


Playstyle

The assassin would therefore be able to kill more low level monsters in the time it would take the monk to kill 1 higher one, even if he can land a more powerful first strike. This leads to my thoughts on their difference in playstyle. Obviously I would not be discussing the two classes in this way if I thought they were completely different, but there are some subtle variations I can talk about.

The assassin wins out in the training field, killing low level perms fast and effectively. He uses the best weapons he can find and the best armour too, and also tries to train his realms. A solo assassin would generally stick to lower level monsters where his burst damage would inflict the greatest pain on a monster. At lvl 25, I would expect an assassin to do 170-200 damage within the first few seconds of every fight.

The monk does well in the big fights. He has no need for armor or weapons and does not risk losing his weapon in a fight. Monks without touch ready will generally do well at longer fights than assassins, with access to better healing abilities and meditate. A monk with good piety would probably heal 40-50 damage with meditate and mend-wounds. Where an assassin would probably just get ready to flee, the monk stays strong, and keeps mashing away with his better damage. The monk with his touch ready should be fearless, trying to take down the highest target he can find. If the monster it around 280 Hp, the lvl 25 monk is easily going to do 220 damage to it in the first few seconds.


Conclusion

The assassin will level faster than the monk, and have an easier time deciding on stats. For the most part of every 10 minutes, the assassin will be able to do more burst damage than the monk. The monk has the advantage of not needing armor or weapons but cannot take on every monster the assassin can.

At level 25, of course, the monk will win out in a 1v1 brawl between an assassin, or even kill a high level monster faster than him . But face it, a monk that has to kill 5 separate monsters will really struggle to keep up. Lastly, that huge leveling speed disparity really makes you wonder why a monk is any sort of useful next to an assassin.
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Mazil
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:45 pm Reply with quote
Member Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 305 Location: In my fishtank
I might have completely lost sight of what I was trying to say there, but please: Discuss Smile
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Ferni
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:16 pm Reply with quote
Member Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 230
aww you are making me become discouraged about my monk atm and you also forgot that if the assassin can't land the backstab, he is pretty much as screwed as the monk would be if it failed a touch. because with average hp and damge the assassin may find it difficult to kill the perm if the backstab misses. it will be forced to flee and heal and either forget about the perm entirely or fight it out in a war of atrition. at least the monk has above average damage and healing abilities so in durability, the monk comes out on top.
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Mazil
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:52 pm Reply with quote
Member Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 305 Location: In my fishtank
Good point about the overall durability and I think I mentioned that already stating that a monk can heal and prolong a battle whereas an assassin would be turning to flee instead.

I did compare these two characters as being played solo but in the real world we do have another character avaliable to us and if that character is a cleric/mage/fighter/barbarian you would admit that failing the backstab can be sort of neutralised by the presence of a helper. However for the purposes of this discussion, an assassin would most likely have to forget about that perm unless he is keen to be using stun. But even then stun on assassins is generally poor as most would not be investing the 17 stat points required for a decent stun duration.
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Swampy
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:16 am Reply with quote
Member Joined: 22 Dec 2007 Posts: 247
Interesting posts, but i would argue against the conclusion that an assassin will level faster than a monk (assuming a hit vig monk here.)

While it is true that assassins will be able to down perms faster and will probably take less damage doing it they also (generally) have low piety. This means that they will tick back their hp slower and additionally can't heal. Monks on the other hand, once they reach a decent level, will be able to med/mend wounds to easily replenish hp and will be able to get back out in the field much faster than assassins will.

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Ferni
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:41 pm Reply with quote
Member Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 230
Using touch on a perm and succeeding will only take half the hp from the perm. And even if you do fail, you do not get a 7 second cooldown on your attacks. Besides the monk should not be relying on touch to kill mobs as it has a 10 minute cooldown and its barehand hits are buffed to compensate for the loss of a weapon and as said before their healing is above average and they can also meditate. The assassin usually has to rely on backstab to take down the perms hp by about half to win the fight due to its average hp and very limited healing abilities. If the backstab fails, the only option for damage is spells which are not impressive on an assassin and to add to that, the assassin has low mp and has a 5 second cast time therefore the assassin can only cast 2 spells within the 7 second cooldown when it fails a backstab. So if spells do not work then the assassin might have to flee depending on the perm and ignore it for a long time.

Its incorrect to say that a monk is a wannabe assassin because monks generally steadily deal and take damage while the assassin deals high amounts of damage in short bursts but is fragile at the same time. They generally have very different playstyles that players need to get used to in order to have success. Oh and monks should avoid killing enchant only perms alone at all costs unless it is required to complete a quest or similar.
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