TerraMUDX [tMUX] User Community Forum Index
Author Message

<  Game Play  ~  Degrees of Seperation

Swampy
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:49 am Reply with quote
Member Joined: 22 Dec 2007 Posts: 247
In a past “discussion” I was having with another player, we stumbled across an issue that I hadn’t really thought about, but was of some interest, and it was on the degree of separation between player and character.

This issue is centred on the fact that just about every player on the mud uses more than 2 characters. In that case, should we treat each character of his/hers as independent to the others, or should we treat them as many heads of the some body?

Let us consider the following example. Let’s say that one of your characters is killed by another player that you know reasonably well. Later on that evening you notice that one of his lower level characters is running around, unprotected and frankly just asking for someone to relieve him of that high-level weapon he’s wielding. Now, a player who separates character from player will not attack this new character without provocation from that character. (Unless he’s a bit evil.) However, a player who does not separate different characters from their player will quiet happily attack this new character in reparation. Just to make sure that this is clear, some players will treat characters as autonomous individuals, without regard to whose pulling their strings, and others will treat them as representations of the same player, and as such one characters actions are indicative to them all.

I must confess that I belong to the latter group, and I do not separate character from player. The obvious problem with this of course, is that you are never 100% sure who is pulling whose strings…

What prompted this interest was the discussion of alliances, and the habit that most players, myself included, have adapted and that is cross-guilding, or having some characters in one alliance and some in the other. I would argue that this makes it difficult to create an atmosphere of collegial support, when you know that some members of your alliance are other players minor characters who are more centrally based in the opposite alliance to you. Now, obviously if you separate character from player, this ceases to become an issue, but I would argue that the majority of our mud players do not follow this philosophy, and do not separate player from character. Am not saying that is a good or a bad thing, but I would say that most of us have always done it that way, and with such a localised player base, it is difficult not to.

This issue is further complicated when players who regularly play a group of characters, then attempt to play other ones anonymously. Obviously, careful maintained anonymity means that no one knows who the player is, and therefore the new characters are treated differently to the other players characters.

So what is the point of this long winded blather? Well firstly I am curious as to who separates at a character level, and who separates at a player level. Secondly I would be interested in seeing who thinks that there should be a reshuffle in the alliances to allow players to move all their characters into one alliance. I personally think it would be helpful to the alliance system, but only if a significant number of players think it should be done, and only if a majority of players do NOT separate characters from their player.

(PS) I hope this is clear. Character separation: characters are treated and act annymously to the player that controls them. Players characters (or pairs of characters.) behave independently to the other characters of that player.

Player separation: all characters of that player are different sides of the whole, and as such should be treated as a whole, one friend all are friends, one foe all are foes.


Last edited by Swampy on Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
From mud we come, to mud we return...
View user's profile Send private message
mamba
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:36 pm Reply with quote
Member Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 114 Location: the real world
I think the moment people start seeing this game as more than just a game, that's when problems start and it goes too far.
View user's profile Send private message
Ferni
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:11 am Reply with quote
Member Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 230
I think its good. The game is unbalanced if a player that doesnt separate player from character and has characters in different alliances. Ive been dying to get ferni and ferlin back in the eastside. and being both level 15, they will be very tough cookies. its really annoying having a player as an enemy and one of their characters is in the gang you're in. Unfortunately maybe this is just me. I havent heard from you bruce yet. Probably because you're fine with what guilds you're characters are in, because they're all in the eastside, apart from kingnothing. mikelus has finally put all his characters in the westside so now its open season for me Very Happy. And one thing that is bugging me, everyone is in the westside and so few are in the eastside. It only takes a small spark to set off a bloodbath but who's going to set that off? maybe its because tmux is an incredibly small game with so few players and the majority are chaotic. so i think its vital that we balance out whos on which side. we cant afford having a one sided competition with only 7 players and a bunch of noobies that play at lunchtime.
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Mazil
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:05 pm Reply with quote
Member Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 305 Location: In my fishtank
really, our majority of players are chaotic? Deathsword is continuously complaining about the LACK of chaotics online
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Ferni
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:34 pm Reply with quote
Member Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 230
yep. hes complaining about the lack of chaotic players ONLINE. not chaotic players themselves. and that most/all of the newbies are lawful.
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
mamba
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:42 pm Reply with quote
Member Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 114 Location: the real world
Wanna talk about imbalance? How about pkilling? Where casters get the normal 3 second casting delay while hitting gets an 8 second delay. So that's 120 damage with bloodboil for a mage in the same time it takes to do 40 damage for a hitter. And the fact that you can have 2 characters on at a time for pkilling doesn't make it any more balanced. I dunno about others, but thats why i don't bother with it anymore.

I dont see any point in making it so a player has to pledge to one alliance all the time. Some players have 10 characters, some have 2, and no matter which way you see it, the alliance with the person's 10 characters are still only 1 person, or in this case, 2 characters on at a time. So even then pkilling is limited.

Just forget about and play. Its only a game.
View user's profile Send private message
Swampy
Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:07 pm Reply with quote
Member Joined: 22 Dec 2007 Posts: 247
IMHO the hit delay is inplace in order to counter the effectiveness of inst-crit weapons. Imagine a barbarian with 200hp dealin out 50-90 damage every 3 seconds, AND having the bash skill. and then we'd get all the whiny mages crying about inbalance. Casters (generally) have less hp, which means they're extremely vulnerable to inst-crit weapons and taking hits. combat classes tend to have more hp and can survive a couple of casts.

It is interesting to note that half of the terrawars have been won by mages and the other half by hitting based classes. (barbarians and assassins.) Lots of classes also have skills that can be deadly to mages, such as bash and backstab and touch and the remaining classes can usually cast. I really don't see a major problem in the pkill balance arena. (Sorry got a little off topic there.)

Ok, sorry, back to what this thread is actually about. This was meant to be just a curiosity thread about how people saw other characters in the game.
Ok, but on alliances to me it really lowered their value when you have one character pledge to one guild and at the same time, the same player had another character pledged to another guild and was running around killing his first characters alliance mates. Which to me sort of degrades the collegial nature of alliances.

Now if the majority of players treat all characters as individuals (and perhaps they should.) then this isn't a problem. However, i don't think a lot of our players do. BUT I DON'T KNOW. So this is why i was curious about how people seperated characters.

If it turns out that players see other players in the game, and not their characters, then we could go from there. But until (if ever) that becomes clear i think it's really all up in the air.

Sorry, this probably sounds like i'm drunk or something, i'm really not. Drunk people die to much.

_________________
From mud we come, to mud we return...
View user's profile Send private message
Ferni
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:20 pm Reply with quote
Member Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 230
of course we separate player from character. you never know who's really behind that bunch of letters thats sitting at the key board. they may decide that because noone knows who they are, they go 'yay, now lets be a pompous bastard and get some respect'. i know i've done that but im certainly not a pompous bastard. ive gotten to know some of the people that play in the real world, i can see a HUGE difference between character and player personality.
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
wonko
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:33 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 220 Location: ...somewhere outside the asylum
7 out of 12 voices in my head agree with you Ferni

in-world = avatar; out of world = real life [whatever that might mean]

_________________
wonko*
[*some assembler required]
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Ferni
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:41 pm Reply with quote
Member Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 230
what do the other 5 say?
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
wonko
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:05 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 220 Location: ...somewhere outside the asylum
I do not know - they formed a committee and voted me out

_________________
wonko*
[*some assembler required]
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mazil
Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:49 pm Reply with quote
Member Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 305 Location: In my fishtank
well, 2 of the voices in wonko's head don't say anything
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
mamba
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:05 pm Reply with quote
Member Joined: 02 Dec 2007 Posts: 114 Location: the real world
Its funny, i was just re-reading this and thinking how childish i must've sounded. Personally, i like treating characters as individuals, and i try not to discriminate, although sometimes is easy to make the link when the names are almost exactly alike. I also like the anonymity aspect of the game, as its always interesting to watch how players treat others when they don't know who they are. Its also interesting to see how players once they get a few levels and items treat newer players. But thats just one of the joys of online games, you might not necessarily know the person you're killing or killing with. Which brings on personalities in the game. I think (and hope) the way i treat others and generally act on the mud reflects my personality in real life (for better or worse), and it would be interesting to see how others act in real life. As i think i only know one other player outside the game (not hungryobento), i think his personality also shows through his characters. Just some interesting observations.

Now i do a lot of cross guilding, maybe because i have so many characters. At first it was to get the bonus exp for my bard, seeing as most monsters in his then perm run were good. Next it was for bonus exp for my cleric when killing evil undead, which helped speed up leveling greatly. Now its a more lawful based approach, with exp not being the reason why i play this game, i pledged a lot of characters to northside to group with and help out a lot of the newer players, who are drawn to the lawfulness and the extra damage bonuses of that alliance. I suppose thats another concern i have with making so you can only pledge to one alliance. That as new players progress, they want to try playing chaotic, but if they'd pledged to a mob, they'd be restricted.

Looking at the player base, i'm not entirely sure that they see characters as characters and not the players behind them, and i'd be very surprised if they did. I also don't think that in this environment (a school game which primarily the base is younger students), people could see avatars as avatars (or even if they wanted to). But thats maybe why i like it so much; its that level of anonymity, which makes you see that its a game, where you could be grouped with someone you like but in reality that person might never appeal to you. Its all crazy stuff, maybe this belongs in the theory thread.
View user's profile Send private message

Display posts from previous:  

All times are GMT + 10 Hours
Page 1 of 1
Post new topic

Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum